Quotes (and A Few Random Thoughts) From Rick Warren's Interview with Oprah

Posted by Christine Pack

Saddleback pastor and Purpose Driven Life author Rick Warren (dubbed "America's Pastor" by Time magazine) recently joined Oprah Winfrey on Friday, October 5 on her livestreaming Lifeclass. Below are a few comments by Rick Warren taken directly from his interview with Oprah, along with some of my commentary.

Rick Warren: “I highly recommend you make God the most important person in your life. Because He loves you unconditionally.”

What about the biblical proclamation that the wrath of God abides on ALL men, unless they come to him in the way He has ordained....through the shed blood of Jesus?

Rick Warren: “If you build your security around a man, he can die. But if you build your security in your relationship to God, that can never be taken from you.”

But no mention of Jesus or how to be in a right relationship with God to this audience.

Rick Warren: “All of us have things we want to change in our lives......If you want to change the way you act, you have to start....with your thoughts.”

This is a Christianized version of something called "New Thought" which is a New Age practice. This is a practice in which one believes, and acts upon the belief, that their thoughts have God-like power to change circumstances. This belief is also what undergirds the Word of Faith movement.

A woman from Norway called in and said: "Who is God? What does that mean? I was raised Catholic....."

In response to this woman, who was clearly receptive to hearing from a pastor about how to be in relationship with God, Rick Warren did not give the gospel. He is response was something along the lines of, you've got to find God and find God's purpose for your life (paraphrasing). As they were cutting away to break after that segment, Rick Warren leaned over and asked Oprah about that caller, and indicated that he had been expecting a different caller. Oprah and the producer replied to him that this caller's question had seemed more urgent, and that's why they put that caller at the front of the line.

Rick Warren: "God is love."

This reason this bothers me is because so many professing Christians today, when asked about God, will say exactly this: that God is love, as if love is the most important attribute of God, and somehow trumps all of his other attributes. But the truth is that all of God's attributes (love, mercy, grace, justice, wrath, sovereignty, omnipotence, etc.) are in perfect, balanced proportion. I'm not saying God is not loving....but that in this interview (and what I hear at large from most Christians) is that God is love-love-love......like the Beatles song.

Rick Warren is addressing this audience as if they all know and affirm what he means by God (as in, the God of the Bible).

Rick Warren: “When God wants to do something great in your life, the first thing He does is give you a dream.” 

Rick Warren: "God is more interested in your character than your career......You're not taking your career to heaven, you are taking your character." 

Really? I hope I'm not taking my character to heaven.....I need the imputed righteousness of Christ. That is the ONLY way I will stand faultless before the throne.

Rick Warren: "It's all about service." 

He has said this a few times. This is pure LAW-based teaching. But this is NOT what "it" is all about. "It" is all about knowing God rightly as He is revealed in his Word, and responding in humble obedience to his command to repent and believe on Christ for the forgiveness of sins. This is works righteousness.....this is a false gospel.

Rick Warren: "God never wastes a 'hurt." 

He's completely mischaracterizing Rom 8:28-29 to this audience....those promises are for believers only. Is he somehow under the impression that he is addressing Christians?

The only thing Rick Warren said that came even close to a gospel message was when he said something like, Jesus loved you *this much* (stretching out hands so they're in the hanging-on-the-cross position). Warren paraphrased Jesus's message for us thusly: "I love you so much I'd rather die than live without you." That last part is a direct quote, even though it's Warren paraphrasing, because, well, Jesus never said that. Jesus said "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." But to hear Warren tell it, poor needy Jesus is up in heaven, wringing his hands, just hoping you will let him come and live in your heart. That is just an abominable way for a pastor to describe the Lord of this Universe. Jesus is NOT some needy stalker girlfriend who's emotionally overwrought at the idea that you don't want to be with Him.


 Additional Resources 

Rick Warren and Joel Osteen Join Hands With Oprah

Rick Warren Get's John Piper's Stamp of Approval?

Critical Issues Commentary: A Biblical Look at Rick Warren's Teaching

Rick Warren at DG 2010: Not An April Fool's Joke?

Rick Warren: Driven by Destiny?

My Visit to Ask Rick Warren to Preach Christ (by Pastor Bob DeWaay)

Rick Warren Encourages "Christianized" Mantra Meditation

Rick Warren and Joel Osteen Join Hands With Oprah

Article by Christian researcher and apologist, Marcia Montenegro. Marcia is a former professional astrologer and writes at Christian Answers for the New Age-CANA). Reprinted with permission.

On October 5th, along with others on Facebook, I watched 3 hours of live taping of Oprah’s Lifeclass online. This included an hour of Word Faith preacher Joel Osteen with Oprah and 2 hours of megachurch Pastor Rick Warren with Oprah. These programs will air later on the OWN network (Rick Warren’s two shows will air in early 2013).

 God's Word First 

Before discussing this, let’s look at God’s word. First of all, we are told to handle God’s word correctly: “Be diligent to (present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15).

It is important not to take scripture out of context, or to misapply it. Reading a passage in context and in comparison to other scripture on a similar topic or theme solves most mistakes or deliberate misuses of scripture applications.

Both Word of Faith teachings (Joel Osteen) and New Thought (Oprah) use scripture and claim Christianity, but take the Bible out of context to prop up false teachings. One of the most widely misused passages is Proverbs 23:7, “As a man thinketh, so is he.” This is quoted by almost every New Thought teacher who has ever lived to support the view that your thoughts determine the reality of your life. The deeper belief here is that your thoughts can alter reality, and that positive thoughts attract positive events while negative ones draw negative events. This is actually a principle of sorcery.

How do we know what Proverbs 23:7 really means? It’s easy to discover if one examines the entire passage. Then it becomes obvious that the text is denouncing acting outwardly one way while inwardly thinking another way. Starting at verse 6, we read: "Do not eat the bread of a selfish man, or desire his delicacies; for as he thinks within himself, so he is. He says to you, 'Eat and drink!' But his heart is not with you." Rather than buttressing New Thought principles, this passage is condemning selfish, hypocritical behavior!

The subtle deception of New Thought is that renewing one’s thinking can be done through techniques and self-effort. This is Satan’s counterfeit of the putting on of the “new self” and renewal of the mind by the power of the Holy Spirit, which only happens when one has believed in Christ and been regenerated by the Spirit (see Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 4:23; Col. 3:10; Titus 3:5).

 Joel Osteen 

Osteen gave his usual Word of Faith teachings that words have power over our lives and this is the way to change our lives. He gave the same kind of affirmations that are taught in New Thought and the New Age, so Oprah was totally on board with this. Affirmations are statements that one repeats, verbally and/or in writing, so that they will become true.

Oprah was spiritually influenced by Unity minister Eric Butterworth’s teaching that Jesus came to show how to achieve Christ Consciousness (the realization that we all have an inherently divine nature). I was not surprised at anything Osteen said, nor that Oprah found him in line with her views.

 Rick Warren 

However, although Rick Warren has had New Age Dr. Oz at his church (along with a supposedly Christian doctor who also endorses some New Age practices), I was hoping he (RW) would somehow give the gospel in the midst of his motivational advice, but he never did. He used the imagery of a poker game to explain we are dealt certain cards, and then gave a teaching on this that sounded like moralistic self-help programs I’ve heard so many times, throwing in a few Bible quotes taken out of context or misquoted. It was something almost any New Ager could accept. God becomes a tool for self-improvement and success.

Warren referred to Jesus, but took scripture out of context and applied things said to believers to everyone. He also misused the Proverbs passage that says “as a man thinketh, so is he.” This passage is a famous passage misused by New Thought proponents and is used in “The Secret.”

What was really hard to watch is when a woman in Norway Skyped to say she realized she needed God but wanted to know who God is and she asked, “What should I do?” It was clear that she was ripe to hear the gospel and needed Jesus! It was a great opportunity to share the gospel with her, and at the same time, for Oprah to hear it. Instead of giving the gospel, Rick Warren seemed uncomfortable and finally just said something like, ‘Go to God and find your purpose.” It was a terrible moment! The woman looked surprised and sad, like she was expecting something else. I prayed for her later and am hoping that the many Christians who witnessed this will pray for her.

Not only that, but when Oprah referred to God, as she often did, Rick Warren agreed with her as though she was referring to the biblical God, which she was not. He even said a few times, “Oprah has a good point.” No, she never did! She was speaking totally out of her New Thought/New Age beliefs. I am grateful that RW recommended that people read the gospel of John. That was the best thing he said.

 A Different God and The True God 

New Thought followers and New Agers will refer to God and Jesus, but it is a god who is a tool for self-betterment and success, and a Jesus who inspires as a human example – not the righteous God who has wrath on sin nor the God-man Jesus who through is death and resurrection is found forgiveness of sins and eternal life to those who believe.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” Acts 10:43

 Additional Resources 

New Thought: Making the Straight Ways Crooked - A Warning For Christians

Rick Warren Get's John Piper's Stamp of Approval?

Critical Issues Commentary: A Biblical Look at Rick Warren's Teaching

Rick Warren at DG 2010: Not An April Fool's Joke?

Rick Warren: Driven by Destiny?

My Visit to Ask Rick Warren to Preach Christ (by Pastor Bob DeWaay)

Rick Warren Encourages "Christianized" Mantra Meditation

"We are born into this world wanting the world, wanting possessions, titles, glory, wealth." (Christian, Pilgrim's Progress)

Posted by Christine Pack

The character "Christian," from author John Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress, speaking in Scott Cawthon's animated version of this wonderful classic:

"This letter I write to my wife, whom I love dearly. I am writing this letter before I cross over the river of death. My destination lies on the other side. I wish now I could have convinced you to make this journey with me, but at the time I was unable to describe the journey at hand. All I had was an emptiness in my heart and a desire to fill it. Now, looking back, I can speak more clearly and tell you that my journey was not in vain. This I know: we are born into this world, wanting the world, wanting possessions, titles, glory, wealth. But they are all fading. They are deceptions that cannot bring us happiness or peace. I pray that you will not sell your soul to the things of this world. Let your heart leave those things behind, for there is a promise that awaits you, a way to be reconciled with God, in this life, and in the life to come. It is true that we are born with a sinful nature, and I have come to know sin as anything I do that requires me to turn my back to God first. We are all guilty of this, and no amount of work we do can repair the damage done. Our deeds and efforts are unclean because we do them with our backs to God. The wages of sin is death…not the death of the body, but death of the spirit. It is by His grace alone that we have hope for salvation. He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to bear that burden on the cross. When He died, our sin died with Him. Christ was then raised from the dead to prove that death has no power over those who follow Him. Christ has conquered death, defeated guilt, wiped sin away, halted sorrow, and given us a clean conscience before our Father in heaven. Let God’s Word guide you. Let God’s family give you strength. And let God’s sacrifice pay your cost. All of this I pray, that you will begin your own journey."

This is probably my all-time favorite version of Pilgrim's Progress, even though the animation is a little cheesy. My mother credits this simple little children's video with being instrumental in her salvation. During the couple of years that I was witnessing to my mom (who was a false convert), whenever she was visting with me and we were in the car, I used to play this video "for the kids," of course. My mother still talks about one time in particular when I had parked the van outside a store while I ran in to make a return, and she was in the back with the boys; I pushed "Play" and left her and the boys with the video going.......

Below is just a short snippet of this video from which the above quote by the character Christian was taken.

 Additional Resources 

The Pilgrim's Progress

The Wisdom of This World is Foolishness

Posted by Christine Pack

Evolutionary scientists insist that the millions/billions of years framework is what makes the evolutionary worldview make sense. With billions of years, they think, anything could happen, including unimaginably complex genetic coding and life arising from non-life materials. But this is perhaps the most absurd argument ever put forward, and truly evidence of futile thinking (see Rom 1:21-22, 1 Cor 1:20, 1 Cor 3:19). With this kind of logic, I should be able to shut the door to the pantry in my kitchen, give it enough time, and have it automatically order itself. This is the "logic" of evolution. But it flies in the face of what we know to be true in observational science, and that is that the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics makes a mockery of this reasoning. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics explains that items go from order to disorder, from new to decaying. That's why shirts get threadbare after repeated washings and the dustbunnies in my pantry, no longer how long I wait, will not order themselves.

Time has no inherent design capabilities. Time is a measuring stick, that's all.

"For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools." Romans 1:21-22

photo credit: Natalie Blackburn via photo pin cc


 Additional Resources 

Bill Nye The Science Guy's Crusade for the Minds of Your Kids

Answers In Genesis (AIG)

Creation Museum

Institution For Creation Research (ICR)

Dan Phillips Dismantles Charismatic Arguments

Posted by Christine Pack and Cathy Mathews

A brilliant post by Pastor Dan Phillips (author of The World Tilting Gospel and blogger at Pyromaniacs and Biblical Christianity) very neatly dismantles many of the Charismatic arguments I've heard. From the article, entitled Charismatic Lexicon - Part One:

Biblically-oriented Christian (BibC): Culmination of millennia of revelation in a completed, wholly sufficient and closed Canon.
Leaky Canon Charismatic equivalent (LC²): Whatever.

BibC: Feeling.
LC²: The Holy Spirit.

BibC: Hunch.
LC²: The Holy Spirit.

BibC: Silly passing thought.
LC²: The Holy Spirit.

BibC: Impulse, best to be rejected after a bit of wise and critical reflection.
LC²: The Holy Spirit.

BibC: Testing by Scripture and rational examination.
LC²: Unbelief.

BibC: Walking in gracious, faith-driven obedience, which definitionally and consciously rests on the written Word alone.
LC²: Deism.

BibC: Living impulsively and irresponsibly, eschewing Biblical analysis and responsible decision-making, and blaming the whole mess on God.
LC²: Moving in the Spirit.

BibC: Undocumented anecdote allegedly done in a corner thousands of miles away and transmitted through the world's longest game of "telephone."
LC²: Proof that "the gifts" continue.

LC²: A divine healing that undeniably proves all charismatic claims.
BibC: Answered prayer, God healing — which all Christians have always confirmed and distinguished from the gift of healing.

And getting into the spirit of the thing, we came up with our own additions to this list:

BibC: Opens Bible, reads it. Knows God is speaking to him through His Word.
LC²: Putting God in a box. 

LC²: Closes Bibles, waits to hear still, small voice of God.
BibC: Vain imaginations.

You can read Dan Phillips' post in full here.


 Additional Resources 

The World Tilting Gospel

God's Wisdom in Proverbs

Charismatic Chaos (book by John MacArthur)

Charismatic Chaos (sermon series)

Copperfield Bible Church (pastored by Dan Phillips)

Just Do Something: How to Make a Decision Without Dreams, Visions, Fleeces, Open Doors, Random Bible Verses, Casting Lots, Liver Shivers, Writing in the Sky, etc.  - by Kevin DeYoung

Biblical Silence vs. Mystical Silence

Secular Interview About What Mysticism Is - BBC Radio Program

What Is Mysticism? (Sola Sisters Article)

What Is Mysticism? (3-Part Series by Dr. Gary Gilley) - Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4 and Part 5

Testimony of a Former Mystic

Wretched: Paul Washer and Chick-Fil-A

Posted by Christine Pack

We Americans have a tendency to think it's going to be all noble and Joan of Arc-ish for us, marching bravely and grandly for The Cause, but it's not going to play out that way. It's going to play out with us being spat upon and mocked and reviled all the way, and this Chick-Fil-A skirmish should be a wake-up call for all Christians. Are we prepared for that kind of persecution? Settle it in your heart today, now, where your heart allegiance lies: is it with God? or with the world, and being loved by the world?

 Additional Resources 

Chick-Fil-A Takes One For The Team

Foxe's Book of Martyrs

Chick-Fil-A Takes One For The Team

Posted by Christine Pack

Dan Cathy, President of Chick-Fil-A and son of Chick-Fil-A founder Truett Cathy, was recently under fire for taking a strong public stance against same sex marriage. Said Cathy in several interviews:

"We are very much supportive of the family -- the biblical definition of the family unit. We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that...we know that it might not be popular with everyone, but thank the Lord, we live in a country where we can share our values and operate on biblical principles." (online source)

"I think we are inviting God's judgment on our nation when we shake our fist at Him and say, 'We know better than you as to what constitutes a marriage,' and I pray God's mercy on our generation that has such a prideful, arrogant attitude to think that we have the audacity to try to redefine what marriage is about." (online source)

I've always had somewhat mixed feelings about Chick-Fil-A because I have generally perceived them to be more culturally Christian and moralistic than authentically Christian. But the answer that Dan Cathy gave in "that" interview was the biblical answer (God defines marriage, not man), as opposed to the watered-down, and Godless, moralistic answer (same sex marriage is bad for the culture, children, etc.), and it made me want to stand up and cheer (and eat a chicken sandwich, too).
 

Slightly off topic, but I've often contemplated the idea that there probably are some true, born again believers who just are very culturally Christian in their appearance, and I've therefore wondered what would happen for those true believers if they were really pressed on a biblical issue, and there was no way out: what would they say? what would they do? Well, Dan Cathy surprised me by actually giving the biblical answer, not the moralistic answer. I was so surprised and encouraged by what he said that I probably went a little overboard, with posting CFA posters to my wall this past couple of weeks, such as this.....

and this........
 

and this........
 

and this.......
 

So I'm hoping that all this controversy will be eye-opening for Dan Cathy, whom I've always perceived to be somewhat "culturally Christian" (no more Confucius, please, CFA), and encourage him to do the hard thing, the culturally unacceptable thing, and continue to take the biblical stance on all things going forward. Now......who's craving some waffle fries?

  Additional Resources  

Dan Cathy Interview (Baptist Press News)

Dan Cathy, on the attempt to redefine marriage (Huffington Post)

ValueTales Storybook: Confucius and the Value of Honesty (Chick-Fil-A publication)

Biblical Christianity vs. Cultural Christianity (Berit Kjos)

What Persecution Will Look Like For The Christian (Paul Washer)

Cultural Christianity (Paul Washer)

Ten Indictments Against The Church (Paul Washer)