Andy Stanley Continues His Sad Slide Into Compromise

Posted by Christine Pack

Andy Stanley, North Point Community Church, Atlanta, GA 

Matt Kennedy has recently written an excellent article entitled Andy Stanley and Baking Cakes for Gay ‘Weddings’ on the Stand Firm blog, in which he calls into question a recent statement made by popular North Point pastor Andy Stanley to USA Today. (For those not familiar with Andy Stanley, Stanley is headquartered in Atlanta, GA, and his church is the second largest church in the U.S. Thus, statements made by Stanley can be understood to have a potentially widespread effect on Christendom.) Stanley had this to say about the battle over same-sex marriages and whether a Christian baker (or florist or photographer, etc.) should be forced to participate in a same sex wedding ceremony with their services:

“Serving people we don’t see eye to eye with is the essence of Christianity. Jesus died for a world with which he didn’t see eye to eye. If a bakery doesn’t want to sell its products to a gay couple, it’s their business. Literally. But leave Jesus out of it.”

From the article by Matt Kennedy:

"I hope you can spot the problem with Stanly’s ethical proposition here? There is a cosmic difference between, say, baking cookies for your porn star neighbor (serving someone you don’t see eye to eye with) and driving your porn star neighbor to the set. There’s a big difference between helping your heroin addict office secretary get an appointment with a rehab counselor and driving your heroin addict office secretary to a meeting with her dealer. Love does not celebrate or participate in the self destruction of the beloved." (Andy Stanley and Baking Cakes for Gay ‘Weddings’)

photo credit: Willow Creek D/CH via photopin cc

 Additional Resources 

Andy Stanley: "The foundation of our faith is not the Scripture."

What Is the Foundation of Andy Stanley's Faith? (Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith)

Is This Andy Stanley's Gay Affirming Shot Across the Bow?

Problems at Andy Stanley's North Point Church?

Is The Megachurch The New Liberalism? (Dr. Al Mohler)

Is The Megachurch the New Liberalism? (discussion) (Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For the Faith)

Homosexuality, Megachurches and Andy Stanley (Apprising)

Pastor Andy Stanley Responds to Questions Over Homosexuality Stance (Christian Post)

Andy Stanley Avoids Gay Issue in Last Sermon of Controversial 8-Part Series (Christian Post)

The Need for Elders Who Guard Their Flocks (Criticial Issues Commentary, Bob DeWaay)

Rick Warren and Joel Osteen Join Hands With Oprah

by Marcia Montenegro, Christian Answers For The New Age
(Original publication date: Oct. 6, 2012)

On October 5th, 2012, I watched 3 hours of live taping of Oprah’s Lifeclass online. This included an hour of Word Faith preacher Joel Osteen with Oprah and 2 hours of megachurch Pastor Rick Warren with Oprah. These programs will air later on the OWN network (Rick Warren’s two shows will air in early 2013).

 God's Word First 

Before discussing this, let’s look at God’s word. First of all, we are told to handle God’s word correctly: “Be diligent to (present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth” (2 Tim. 2:15).

It is important not to take scripture out of context, or to misapply it. Reading a passage in context and in comparison to other scripture on a similar topic or theme solves most mistakes or deliberate misuses of scripture applications.

Both Word of Faith teachings (Joel Osteen) and New Thought (Oprah) use scripture and claim Christianity, but take the Bible out of context to prop up false teachings. One of the most widely misused passages is Proverbs 23:7, “As a man thinketh, so is he.” This is quoted by almost every New Thought teacher who has ever lived to support the view that your thoughts determine the reality of your life. The deeper belief here is that your thoughts can alter reality, and that positive thoughts attract positive events while negative ones draw negative events. This is actually a principle of sorcery.

How do we know what Proverbs 23:7 really means? It’s easy to discover if one examines the entire passage. Then it becomes obvious that the text is denouncing acting outwardly one way while inwardly thinking another way. Starting at verse 6, we read: "Do not eat the bread of a selfish man, or desire his delicacies; for as he thinks within himself, so he is. He says to you, 'Eat and drink!' But his heart is not with you." Rather than buttressing New Thought principles, this passage is condemning selfish, hypocritical behavior!

The subtle deception of New Thought is that renewing one’s thinking can be done through techniques and self-effort. This is Satan’s counterfeit of the putting on of the “new self” and renewal of the mind by the power of the Holy Spirit, which only happens when one has believed in Christ and been regenerated by the Spirit (see Rom. 12:2; 2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 4:23; Col. 3:10; Titus 3:5).

 Joel Osteen 

Osteen gave his usual Word of Faith teachings that words have power over our lives and this is the way to change our lives. He gave the same kind of affirmations that are taught in New Thought and the New Age, so Oprah was totally on board with this. Affirmations are statements that one repeats, verbally and/or in writing, so that they will become true.

Oprah was spiritually influenced by Unity minister Eric Butterworth’s teaching that Jesus came to show how to achieve Christ Consciousness (the realization that we all have an inherently divine nature). I was not surprised at anything Osteen said, nor that Oprah found him in line with her views.

 Rick Warren 

However, although Rick Warren has had New Age Dr. Oz at his church (along with a professing Christian doctor who also endorses some New Age practices), I was hoping Rick Warren would give the gospel in the midst of his motivational advice, but he never did. He used the imagery of a poker game to explain we are dealt certain cards, and then gave a teaching on this that sounded like moralistic self-help programs I’ve heard so many times, throwing in a few Bible quotes taken out of context or misquoted. It was something almost any New Ager could accept. God becomes a tool for self-improvement and success.

Rick Warren referred to Jesus, but took scripture out of context and applied things said to believers to everyone. He also misused the Proverbs passage that says “as a man thinketh, so is he.” This passage is a famous text misused by New Thought proponents and is used in “The Secret.” 

What was really hard to watch is when a woman in Norway Skyped to say she realized she needed God but wanted to know who God is and she asked, “What should I do?” It was clear that she was ripe to hear the gospel and needed Jesus! It was a great opportunity to share the gospel with her, and at the same time, for Oprah to hear it. Instead of giving the gospel, Rick Warren seemed uncomfortable and finally just said something like, ‘Go to God and find your purpose” (or "Go to God and you'll find your purpose"). It was a terrible moment! The woman looked surprised and sad, like she was expecting something else. I prayed for her later and am hoping that the many Christians who witnessed this will pray for her.

Not only that, but when Oprah referred to God, as she often did, Rick Warren agreed with her as though she was referring to the biblical God, which she was not. He even said a few times, “Oprah has a good point.” No, she never did! She was speaking totally out of her New Thought/New Age beliefs. I am grateful that Warren recommended that people read the gospel of John. That was the best thing he said.

 A Different God and the True God 

New Thought followers and New Agers will refer to God and Jesus, but it is a god who is a tool for self-betterment and success, and a Jesus who inspires as a human example – not the righteous God who has wrath on sin nor the God-man Jesus who through is death and resurrection is found forgiveness of sins and eternal life to those who believe.

"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

"Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins.” Acts 10:43

photo credit: shutterbean via photopin cc

 ADDITIONAL RESOURCES 

Article on New Thought

Church of Tares A Must-Watch Video

Posted by Christine Pack

The following video, by producer Elliot Nesch, is a must-watch video for Christians today who are alarmed over the state of the church today, and want to know why the church is the way it is. This film includes in-depth analysis from radio talk show host Chris Rosebrough, pastor Gary Gilley, pastor Bob DeWaay, Christian researcher Ray Yungen, and others. From the producer's website (my emphasis added):

"Can the Church borrow the marketing tools of the world and apply them to the Church? What is the history of the Church Growth movement and its false premises? Who is involved in the new evangelicalism and second reformation? Why are these movements embracing contemplative mysticism? How does this movement play into the New World Order? These questions and more are answered in Church of Tares: Purpose Driven, Seeker-Sensitive, Church Growth & New World Order. 

Church of Tares chronicles the man-centered pragmatism of these evangelical Christian movements in comparison to the Bible’s instruction for building the Church of Jesus Christ. As a sequel to The Real Roots of the Emergent Church, Church of Tares documents the connections between the liberal Emergent Church movement and the Church Growth movement. Both movements’ leadership were discipled by business management guru Peter Drucker, who was attracted to the megachurch movement as a social phenomenon that could bring about his 'new society' and New World Order. Megachurch pastors Rick Warren and Bill Hybels as well as Leadership Network founder Bob Buford all acknowledge Drucker (who professed not to be a Christian) as their mentor and have built their organizations upon his secular business management philosophies rather than the foundation of Jesus Christ. 

The fruit of these movements is great compromise of the Gospel and the Great Commission. Rick Warren claims to be ushering in a new spiritual awakening and second reformation with his P.E.A.C.E. Plan. But this reform appears to be a social reformation rather than a spiritual one by joining together in ministry with unbelievers to fight global giants. Such compromise has led to the affirming response letter to the Common Word document which declares Muhammad to be a prophet and the Bible and Qur’an to be of the 'same Divine origin.'"

 Additional Resources 

Holy Bible Prophecy (Elliott Nesch)

Fighting For The Faith (Chris Rosebrough)

Southern View Chapel - Articles and Book Reviews (Gary Gilley)

Critical Issues Commentaries - Radio Shows and Articles (Bob DeWaay)

Resistance Is Futile: You Will Be Assimilated Into The Community

Interview With Peter Drucker

Fascism Reborn

Problems At Andy Stanley's North Point Church?

Posted by Christine Pack

Dr. Al Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, recently wrote an article concerning the problematic trend of "megachurches" in evangelical Christianity, in which pastors attempt to oversee enormous churches with multiple sites, and members in the thousands, through the savvy use of technology and multi-media. In his article entitled Is The Megachurch The New Liberalism?, Dr. Mohler specifically mentioned megachurch pastor Andy Stanley, pastor of North Point Community Church in Atlanta, GA and creator of the Catalyst conferences. Andy Stanley, according to Dr. Mohler's article, recently gave a message in which he described a situation at North Point where a woman, her ex-husband and her ex-husband's male lover were in a conflict. The strangest part of this story is that the issue with which Stanley took exception was the fact that the ex-husband's male lover was not yet divorced from his wife, and yet was serving in leadership at North Point. Presumably, the man's adultery was the issue, but not, apparently, his unrepentantly homosexual lifestyle. From the article:

"(Andy) Stanley told the two men that they could not serve on the host team so long as the one man was still married. He later told of the former wife’s decision not to live in bitterness, and of her initiative to bring the whole new family structure to a Christmas service. This included the woman, her daughter, her former husband, his gay partner, and his daughter. Stanley celebrated this new 'modern family' as an expression of forgiveness." (online source)

(Incidentally, this story of the wife, the ex-husband, the ex-husband's male lover, etc., etc. was presented by Andy Stanley with graphics. This was no off-the-cuff account that just spontaneously occurred to Andy Stanley. The graphic below was obviously prepared well in advance of this sermon. I smell an agenda. Is open homosexuality going to be the Next Big Thing in Evangelicalism?)

Andy Stanley, pastor of North Point Community Church - Atlanta, GA
(To view this graphic, go to the Christian sermon series, Part 5, 24 minute mark)

For myself, I was thoroughly shocked and appalled when I read about this recent message by Andy Stanley. I know a number of people, solid Christians, who attend North Point, and speak highly of the teaching there. Andy Stanley is generally well-regarded here in Atlanta where he grew up and where his father (Charles Stanley) has also been a pastor for a number of years. So I would say that I am somewhat predisposed to be favorably inclined toward Stanley. And yet, by his teaching, it seems he is drifting down the path of ear-tickling liberalism that so many before him have done.

Not convinced? Then I offer Exhibit B for your consideration:

Andy Stanley's North Point has a document that must be filled out and signed by adult volunteers seeking to minister to students if they wish to be considered for ministry. There is, however, some very curious language in this "covenant" document. The following is taken directly from the covenant:

Regarding Sexual Behavior 

We teach that sex was created by God as an expression of intimacy between a man and woman within the context of marriage. Volunteers who embrace lifestyles or behaviors that conflict with this teaching will eventually find themselves having to pretend to be something they are not or believe something they don't. In an effort to protect you from a potentially awkward situation, we ask the following: 

•  If you are involved in a sexual relationship and are not married, we ask that you not volunteer in family ministry at this time. 

• If you are pursuing a same sex relationship, we ask that you not volunteer in family ministry at this time.   

• In the spirit of being a good role model, if you are single and living with a member of the opposite sex, we ask that you not volunteer at this time. We do not want to put you in the awkward position of having to explain your arrangement if members of your group visit your home.  

• If you are married and are currently involved in a sexual relationship outside of your marriage, we ask that you not volunteer at this time. (online source)

Our commentary: In the section of this covenant regarding sexual behavior, there is no call for repentance for those in willfully sinful sexual situations, no mention of church discipline, just a caution for those in sexual sin not to volunteer for ministry because of the "potentially awkward situation" it might create. But what about protecting those same people from the potentially fiery situation they might face, if they don't repent before a high and holy God? Is this what pastors are called to do......protect people from potentially awkward situations?

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death." (Revelation 21:8)

Taking into account the troubling message recounted by Dr. Al Mohler in the first part of this article, as well as this North Point covenant statement for volunteers to sign, my question is this: has Andy Stanley abdicated his right to serve as an church leader?

"An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be blameless—not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness, not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather he must be hospitable, one who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and disciplined. He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it." (Titus 1:6-9, my emphasis) 

"Therefore, I exhort the elders among you, as your fellow elder and witness of the sufferings of Christ, and a partaker also of the glory that is to be revealed, shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight not under compulsion, but voluntarily, according to the will of God; and not for sordid gain, but with eagerness; nor yet as lording it over those allotted to your charge, but proving to be examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory." (1 Peter 5:1-4)

Our elders are called to guard and teach the flocks entrusted to them, and also to lead them by example. What we need today are sober-minded, Godly men who take seriously their charge before God to not only guard and teach their flocks, but to also exhort them to righteous living before a high and holy God to whom they will one day give an account. We need leaders who, if need be, will discipline their members engaging in unrepentant sexual sin, not coddle them in their sinful passions and tickle their ears with man-centered language aimed at quelling the conscience. Where are such men? And more to the point of this article, does Andy Stanley still qualify for the role of elder/overseer?

Update: Andy Stanley recently released a response to Dr. Al Mohler's article:

"We are requesting that everyone watch the entire series: Christian.* It concludes this Sunday. It’s 8 parts. That’s a lot of content to wade through. But I figure that’s better than a sound bite or an interview." (online source)

My concern: how do you frame up that scenario with the woman, her ex-husband, the male lover (who is still married to HIS wife), etc., in a way that makes sense unless a clear call for repentance is given? It certainly wasn't in the sermon that Dr. Mohler accounted. And if it was given, but in a later message, why wouldn't you give the call for repentance in the same sermon where the scenario was presented?


*This entire 8-part series by Andy Stanley can be listened to in its entirety here.


 Additional Resources 

North Point Student Ministry Volunteer Application (North Point online source)

 Is The Megachurch The New Liberalism? (Dr. Al Mohler)

Andy Stanley Confounds The Church About Homosexuality (Stand Up For The Truth)

Is The Megachurch the New Liberalism? (Chris Rosebrough's Fighting For the Faith radio show)

Homosexuality, Megachurches and Andy Stanley (Apprising)

Pastor Andy Stanley Responds to Questions Over Homosexuality Stance (Christian Post)

Andy Stanley Avoids Gay Issue in Last Sermon of Controversial 8-Part Series (Christian Post)

The Need for Elders Who Guard Their Flocks (Criticial Issues Commentary, Bob DeWaay)